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	<title>Comments on: The Patriarch&#8217;s Will &#8211; a game theory puzzle</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2010/07/27/the-patriarchs-will-a-game-theory-puzzle/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2010/07/27/the-patriarchs-will-a-game-theory-puzzle/</link>
	<description>Articles on game theory and personal finance</description>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2010/07/27/the-patriarchs-will-a-game-theory-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-7107</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 16:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/?p=2605#comment-7107</guid>
		<description>@Bryan:

In terms of game theory I don&#039;t think this would significantly change things. In that final scenario our observation:

&quot;Thus, it is in Son 8â€™s best interest to prevent it from coming to two people.&quot;

Becomes:

&quot;Thus, it is in Son 7&#039;s best interest to prevent it from coming to two people.&quot;

Which Son 6 can then use to his advantage making a nominal offer to Son 7, rather than Son 8.

In the end, Son 1 would make nominal offers to 2, 4, 6 and 8 rather than 3, 5 and 7.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bryan:</p>
<p>In terms of game theory I don&#8217;t think this would significantly change things. In that final scenario our observation:</p>
<p>&#8220;Thus, it is in Son 8â€™s best interest to prevent it from coming to two people.&#8221;</p>
<p>Becomes:</p>
<p>&#8220;Thus, it is in Son 7&#8242;s best interest to prevent it from coming to two people.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which Son 6 can then use to his advantage making a nominal offer to Son 7, rather than Son 8.</p>
<p>In the end, Son 1 would make nominal offers to 2, 4, 6 and 8 rather than 3, 5 and 7.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2010/07/27/the-patriarchs-will-a-game-theory-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-7106</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 16:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/?p=2605#comment-7106</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to see the result if you changed the game slightly so that the brother making the offer doesn&#039;t get to vote. At that point, if it got down to the two player scenario, the proposer would be guaranteed to lose, since the last brother only has to vote against him and he inherits everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to see the result if you changed the game slightly so that the brother making the offer doesn&#8217;t get to vote. At that point, if it got down to the two player scenario, the proposer would be guaranteed to lose, since the last brother only has to vote against him and he inherits everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Faraz</title>
		<link>http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2010/07/27/the-patriarchs-will-a-game-theory-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-7100</link>
		<dc:creator>Faraz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 01:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/?p=2605#comment-7100</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post, Presh! This was a fun puzzle to work out. I proposed this to a friend who also thought a nominal payment to win out votes is insulting and that punishment would be a better strategy for the weaker ones. I agree- it&#039;s just that these pure logical (and probably not very realistic) assumptions are hard to swallow for some people. Still a very interesting scenario!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post, Presh! This was a fun puzzle to work out. I proposed this to a friend who also thought a nominal payment to win out votes is insulting and that punishment would be a better strategy for the weaker ones. I agree- it&#8217;s just that these pure logical (and probably not very realistic) assumptions are hard to swallow for some people. Still a very interesting scenario!</p>
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		<title>By: michael webster</title>
		<link>http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2010/07/27/the-patriarchs-will-a-game-theory-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-7093</link>
		<dc:creator>michael webster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/?p=2605#comment-7093</guid>
		<description>I have a different sense of what would happen in the three person version of this game.  My guess is that the strong and weak gang up on the middle and split the loot.

Here is why I think that.

Consider three games, with the three players who have to split 60 pieces of gold

In the first game, the voting rule is that they all have to agree or get nothing.  The split is going to be 20,20,20.  Unless there is a convincing stubborn holdout.

In the second game, the voting rule is majority wins. There are 3 possible  2 persons coalitions,  each with 30,30 as the split.  Hard to tell which coalition will form.

Now we get to the three person pirates game.  The voting rule is the same, but it is in run-off format. The strongest player proposes and needs 2 votes, if his proposal isn&#039;t accepted the middle player proposes and needs 1 vote, and the weak never gets to vote.

This is very similar to the previous coalition game with majority rule - if the strong can form a coalition with the middle or weak, they will have enough votes.  But the problem for the middle is this: no verbal commitment to the strong&#039;s proposal is credible - it would always be better to vote against it, promising the weak a greater share.  

If the middle was able to scuttle the strong, then the weak, no matter what was promised, will end up being scuttled by the middle.

This is why the weak has a better chance of a coalition with the strong - both need each other equally.

Just a thought - we love to see how groups might manage this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a different sense of what would happen in the three person version of this game.  My guess is that the strong and weak gang up on the middle and split the loot.</p>
<p>Here is why I think that.</p>
<p>Consider three games, with the three players who have to split 60 pieces of gold</p>
<p>In the first game, the voting rule is that they all have to agree or get nothing.  The split is going to be 20,20,20.  Unless there is a convincing stubborn holdout.</p>
<p>In the second game, the voting rule is majority wins. There are 3 possible  2 persons coalitions,  each with 30,30 as the split.  Hard to tell which coalition will form.</p>
<p>Now we get to the three person pirates game.  The voting rule is the same, but it is in run-off format. The strongest player proposes and needs 2 votes, if his proposal isn&#8217;t accepted the middle player proposes and needs 1 vote, and the weak never gets to vote.</p>
<p>This is very similar to the previous coalition game with majority rule &#8211; if the strong can form a coalition with the middle or weak, they will have enough votes.  But the problem for the middle is this: no verbal commitment to the strong&#8217;s proposal is credible &#8211; it would always be better to vote against it, promising the weak a greater share.  </p>
<p>If the middle was able to scuttle the strong, then the weak, no matter what was promised, will end up being scuttled by the middle.</p>
<p>This is why the weak has a better chance of a coalition with the strong &#8211; both need each other equally.</p>
<p>Just a thought &#8211; we love to see how groups might manage this.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2010/07/27/the-patriarchs-will-a-game-theory-puzzle/comment-page-1/#comment-7090</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/?p=2605#comment-7090</guid>
		<description>@Bryan:

Additionally, while it may seem that Game Theory misses the mark in *how much* to offer, it is crucial in determining *to whom* to make the offers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bryan:</p>
<p>Additionally, while it may seem that Game Theory misses the mark in *how much* to offer, it is crucial in determining *to whom* to make the offers.</p>
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